The Abortion Debate: Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice at the QMC

The 40 Days for Life campaign have set up shop outside the Circle Centre at the QMC, praying for an end to abortion for forty days. While they don’t carry signs with photos or statistics, they do hold signs that clearly declare them to be ‘praying for an end to abortion’. Of course, their presence has attracted much controversy, particularly from members of the Nottingham Pro-Choice branch. We spoke to Rachel, a representative from Pro-Choice Nottingham, and Alan from the 40 Days for Life campaign…

Tell us about the organisation you’re from...
We’re not actually from an organisation, we just kind of use their logo – 40 Days for Life. It was started by two guys in Texas who belonged to two different Christian churches. They found out that Planned Parenthood were going to open an abortion clinic in their town, which really shocked them. They’d been trying pro-life activities for years and didn’t really get much support – it’s a bit of a lonely furrow you plough. So they were praying and they hit on the idea of forty days of prayer, a time period in the Bible that’s used for transformation.

They decided to mount 24/7 prayer outside this place for forty days. To cut a long story short, that facility was closed and lives were saved. It’s done on that basis. It’s purely prayer. We’ve been painted that we’re protesting, that’s not what we’re doing at all. We’re here to pray. We’re here on a Sunday morning at 8am when it’s closed. There’s no point protesting on a Sunday morning.

The decision to hold the vigil here is quite controversial. What do you aim to gain from holding the vigil here as opposed to elsewhere? You can pray anywhere...
You can pray anywhere, and we do pray anywhere. This isn’t being done in town because it’s not a protest. This is the place where abortions are taking place. This is the area where we need to call down the grace of God into the hearts of the women, nurses, members of staff, and also to pray for the children. The unborn child is losing its life in this place, and this is why we want to be here. If any woman does see our signs and wants to get some alternative information, we’re here. We’ve got some information for support services, there are people out there who will help her keep that child. It’s a last ditch attempt to save the life of the child, and to prevent that woman from making a mistake that will affect the rest of her life.

They don’t offer pre-abortion advice here – that’s not the purpose of the Circle Centre. It is solely a place to undergo the abortion procedure. I called the centre earlier today to confirm that. So the women that arrive here, by law, have already had to visit two medical professionals who have then referred them to have the procedure here. Do you not think by that point they’ve already received all the information they need from medical professionals, the NHS, friends, family and partners, and by being here, you might be causing more distress than you are good?
We thought long and hard about that because we’re here with love in our hearts for women and children. We do not want to cause distress. We are told on the one hand that the life that’s being taken is just a clump of cells and it isn’t a human life – no more a human being than an appendix or a tooth. On the other hand, they’re saying that it’s a very stressful thing – so it’s obviously not just a tooth or an appendix. Something very deep-seated is happening within a woman. And although she may have had counselling, we are here as a last minute attempt to try and get her to seek the help that will help her to keep the child. We don’t want to see unborn children’s lives ended here.

Also, there was a quality care admissions report on this place in 2015, that said that their aftercare – so post-abortion counselling – was not up to standard, and they were reported for that. We know people who can offer that. There have been 8.5million abortions in this country since 1967. That’s a lot of women, and they are now mobilising and saying, “This wasn’t what we thought.”

NB: The 2015 Quality of Care report on the Circle Centre actually refers to pre-abortion counselling. The Circle Centre does not offer this, but women are referred to services by their GPs, and other medical professionals they may see prior to attending the Circle Centre. The report stated "Patients considering termination of pregnancy should have access to pre-termination counselling. The policy in use at the treatment centre stated that patients were provided with pre-termination counselling sessions by the referring services as well as by staff working at the treatment centre. These staff were employed by another NHS organisation but worked at the treatment centre. Two patients we spoke with told us they had not been offered or received counselling prior to their termination."

This ‘deep-seated’ distress you mention – do you think that could come from the knowledge that there are people out there judging them for their decision, and the fact that they arrive at centres like this, having come to a decision, and see people like yourselves? I understand you’re not actively harming these women, but studies from Aston University show that the presence of anti-abortion campaigners outside abortion clinics is a cause of distress...
I spoke to somebody from Aston University last year, I’ve looked at the research she’s done, and I wasn’t convinced by it. She wasn’t treating us fairly. She had an agenda when she came, and from what she said in her reports, and what we say and what we believe – it’s not representative.

In terms of us judging, that is another accusation that is put upon us. Why would we want to judge a woman? My wife, mother and daughter are women. We believe in God. People don’t understand that we’re here to pray that the holy spirit will come down upon those women and touch their hearts, and save the lives of those unborn children. We were all unborn children once. We were all in the womb. We were all clumps of cells at some point. But our lives were spared, and I think it’s our duty now, because we are born, to speak up for the most powerless of individuals in our society – children in the womb.

Are you advocators for an end to all abortion or are there situations where you think abortion is acceptable?
When I was younger I thought I mainly disagreed with abortion, but what about things like incest and rape? Surely you can allow abortion for that case? But when you think logically to first principles, there’s the victim who can never be un-raped – she’s always going to have that trauma. But the one person who’s innocent in that situation is the life of the unborn child.

And the life of the woman.
Yes. But the one that pays with their lives is the unborn child. And if we say that a child conceived in rape is not worth as much as someone who is conceived in a happy family, then the logic is twisted. A human life is a human life.

Part of your argument for not enabling women to have abortions -
It’s not an argument, it’s a belief. It’s a conviction that all human life is precious.

Okay, a reason for your belief that women shouldn’t have abortions is because abortion causes the woman significant mental distress. Would a woman who was raped and then forced to carry a child she didn’t want, not also experience significant distress?
The thing to remember there is that being pregnant is something that is fundamentally in the nature of women. And many women, I’ve read and been told, may have unwanted, unplanned pregnancies, but when that child is born, very few of them actually have unwanted children. A woman may be raped against her will, as many women are in Africa, like what happened in Rwanda. Lots of those women kept their children, and once their pregnancy progressed, they realised that that was part of them as well. The fact that that child came into the world in that horrible, evil way, wasn’t the fault of the child. And having an abortion would be like a second assault on her.

Wow. Okay.
She’s assaulted once because she’s raped, but the abortion itself would be like a medical assault on her body, and nothing positive would come out of that. Lots of women who have been raped in Africa, actually, their babies are the positive thing that came out of that.

We have to think positive, we have to give hope. We have to have love in our hearts. Life isn’t easy, but the way to solve our problems is not to remove and take away the lives of unborn innocent children. The thing that really annoys me is when people say we’re anti-women. It’s the absolute opposite. Abortion benefits men. It’s the woman who has to carry the cross. She has to pay the price. The men just go off.

How do you feel about speaking about this as a man with no direct experience of the issue?
I have as much right to speak about this. Firstly, it’s through men that women get pregnant. Second, women have a right to expect men to act responsibly and take accountability for the children they’ve conceived. If a woman gets pregnant, she has the right to expect the man to support her because it’s his child. She has no right to say “I’m going to abort that child against your wishes.” And 50% of all embryos are male. The majority of doctors are male. This is a male concern. We should be protecting women, we should be protecting unborn children, male or female. Men need to stand up to the plate and speak up for these women who are being pushed through the system.

Surely if enough women had a problem with abortion they would speak out for themselves? And we just wouldn’t have abortion because women would always want their babies?
That would be the ideal situation to which we’re working for. But there’s lots of pressures on women these days. Pressures to have a career, pressures to go to university, pressures to ‘compete with men’, and when nature takes its course, and women become mothers, that’s a big shock. And then what do we do? We kill the unborn child. I think part of the reason for that is in our society, motherhood is so undervalued, so when motherhood raises its ugly head by accident, our answer is destroy, and I think that’s an insult to women.

What practical support do you offer to women who come to you and say, “I don’t want to do this”?
We have literature from charities such as Life, Good Counsel Network, Rachel’s Vineyard, who will help them to get support. They will help them to get advice on the benefit system, they’re charities as well. Life, in particular, has accommodation. We had a girl living with us who was at university many years ago, and she got an unplanned pregnancy, and when the baby was born, she couldn’t live in her digs so she stayed with us. That must have been 27 years ago now. That little baby now has his own children, and we’re still in touch. It taught us a massive lesson – that if you look on the positive side and try and help, there’s always something.

On the 40 Days for Life website, there’s a link to an article entitled 2014 Study Linking Abortion With Breast Cancer. On the NHS website, they state that there is absolutely no evidence for a relationship between breast cancer and abortion. That looks like you’re giving out false information to vulnerable women...
We personally didn’t put that information there, but I can assure you that there is more and more evidence worldwide for a link between abortion and breast cancer. It’s quite simple when you think about it. When a woman is pregnant, her whole body starts gearing up for this child. One of the things that starts to change is the cells in the breast. They’re ready to start producing milk and start feeding that baby. What happens with abortion, is that the whole system is just ripped out, and those cells are suddenly frozen in the middle, and that’s when they become cancerous. There’s more and more evidence and studies showing that there is a definite breast cancer link. All I can say with the NHS is that they’re looking –

They’ve got it wrong?
Well, someone’s got it wrong. Are all these other studies made up? Just because we’re bad people making up false science? I don’t think so.

I would be more inclined to believe the NHS.
You have to do your research.

What are your beliefs surrounding contraception as a whole?
I’m not here to discuss contraception, I’m here to discuss praying for the unborn.

What would you say to a woman who is considering abortion?
What I would say to her, is that there are people out here who would welcome with you with love, who would give you the support that you need. We value you as a woman, we value you as a mother, and we value your child. We don’t think that taking your child’s life is the best thing for you and for society. We need that child with us and your family needs you.

Why are you opposed to the vigil?
We are opposed to the 40 Days for Life vigil as we strongly believe that their presence outside the QMC treatment centre is intimidating to women accessing health care at the centre. We believe that they have chosen that location specifically to target women.

Why is this vigil so harmful to women?
The 40 Days for Life group is vocally opposed to abortion. While they have the right to hold this opinion, the fact remains that women are legally entitled to end their pregnancies. We have fought hard for this right and this group wishes to attack our rights. The specific location they have chosen to hold their ‘vigil’ is especially damaging as their presence can cause women using the treatment centre to feel intimidated, distressed and that their privacy is being intruded upon.

How do you answer the argument that the 40 Days for Life campaigners have a right to freedom of speech?
I agree wholeheartedly. However, the right to free speech does not override another person’s right to go about their day without harassment.

Is there any evidence to suggest vigils like this actually prevent or deter women from having abortions?
None whatsoever. The 40 Days… group periodically claim that they have changed X number of women’s minds, but they present no evidence of that and I couldn’t find any studies or research online either.

If women have turned around after finding a ‘vigil’ outside their clinic, evidence would suggest that they have been intimidated rather than changed their minds. Pam Lowe and Graham Hayes from Aston University published a study in 2015 which concluded that the presence of anti-abortion activists outside clinics, even where those activists don’t directly approach women and are polite, has a significant impact on women attending the clinics. Participants in the study reported feeling that the presence of activists made them feel intimidated and caused them to feel significant levels of alarm and distress. Some saw anti-abortion activism as religious extremism.

Representatives of the 40 Days… campaign have said they think there is a lack of information provided to women about the alternatives to abortion. Do you think that is the case?
This is absolutely untrue. GPs and practice nurses are skilled and knowledgeable at discussing options with women who have an unwanted pregnancy. There is a vast amount of information online. The British Pregnancy Advisory Service discuss options including continuing with pregnancy and becoming a parent or arranging adoption as well as termination of pregnancy.

Additionally, the view that women do not think hard and consider their options before deciding to terminate a pregnancy is an incredibly patronising one which assumes that women do not have the intelligence or capability to make informed decisions about their own futures.

What counteraction are you taking?
We are holding regular counter demonstrations at the hospital. We have contacted Nottingham University Hospitals Trust to ask them to take action to have this group removed. Additionally we have contacted local MPs and asked them to intervene. We currently have a petition on Change.org addressed to Peter Homa (NUH Chief Exec), Paddy Tipping (Police and Crime Commissioner) and Jon Collins (Leader of Nottingham City Council) asking them to use the powers available to them to remove the protesters from hospital grounds. You can find our petition here.

Is there an argument that the more people outside the clinic – be they pro-choice or anti-abortion – the more distress caused to women accessing the clinic?
Yes and this is something we have been very conscious of. The last thing we want to do is cause further upset to any women accessing the clinic, or to any patient at QMC. When we counter demonstrate, we take the approach of using large banners carrying pro-choice slogans to screen the anti-choice protesters from view. We do not shout or chant or use megaphones as we have no wish to disturb patients or staff.

All statements from the 40 Days… campaign imply they are away from the Circle Centre…
They are standing in a prominent spot directly opposite the entrance to the centre. While they are not standing around the door they are in a position where they have clear sight of the door and many people accessing the centre would have to walk directly past them.

What kinds of people are attending the vigil?
The people that we have seen on the ‘vigil’ have been mainly 50+. There are more men than women. There seems to be a lack of any women of childbearing age. I believe that they are a religious group attached to the Catholic Church.

Have you had any direct contact with attendees of the vigil? If so, what happened?
We have had direct conversations with the group on a couple of occasions. I have no doubt that they are very sincere in their beliefs, but they seem unable to acknowledge that their actions may be causing harm. Some of the activists are willing to engage in polite discussion but others are very defensive and accuse us of various things, up to and including assault, when we have challenged them.

Do you oppose the use of the word ‘vigil’? Do you think we should call it a protest?
I refer to it as a protest rather than a vigil but I think that, to some extent, it’s irrelevant what we call it. The fact remains that a prayer vigil can be held at church or at home, a protest may be better held at Speaker’s Corner, where it would be more visible to the general public. Whatever we call this, it remains a fact that it is an action which is specifically designed to make it harder for women to access health care offered by the treatment centre.

What would you like to say to women who have an abortion scheduled over the next forty days?
That you are legally and morally entitled to make decisions about your body and your future and nobody has the right to try to make that difficult for you. That if you are attending the treatment centre and feel intimidated by the anti-choice group please contact us at prochoicenottm@gmail.com and we can arrange for a friendly, supportive person to escort you into the centre.

What has the response from QMC been like?
They have said that they are monitoring the situation and will take action if the group causes nuisance, disturbance or anti-social behaviour. We consider their response to be inadequate as it fails to acknowledge that their very presence is causing distress.

MPs will discuss whether or not to remove abortion from criminal law on Monday 13 March. What’s your opinion on this?
We are fully in support of removing abortion from criminal law. The sections of the Offences Against the Person Act which refer to abortion were written before women even had the right to vote. This legislation is clearly completely out of date. The 1967 Abortion Act did not overturn this act or decriminalize abortion; it just created exemptions.

Although the Abortion Act was created to protect women’s health, medical advances since 1967 mean that it can now prevent women getting the best possible care – requiring two doctors to agree to a termination can cause delays. 51% of terminations are now carried out using the ‘abortion pill’, however the provisions of the act prevent women from taking this at home and instead requires them to attend multiple appointments at clinics often while bleeding and in pain. We need to trust women to make their own decision, and for doctors to provide appropriate care and the current provisions do neither.

If you, or anyone you know, would like any further information on what to do in the event of an unplanned pregnancy, please follow any of the links below. They are all organisations that offer confidential, free and impartial advice to anyone who needs it. Alternatively, you can contact your local GP, or access your local sexual health clinic for more information.

If you just want to talk to someone, you can call the Samaritans on 116 123.

British Pregnancy Advice Service (BPAS) website

Marie Stopes website

NHS information on abortion

NHS information on abortion and breast cancer