We spoke to 80s post-punk legend Peter Hook, ahead of his gig at Rock City

You’re bringing Substance back to Nottingham again, the last time was 2017 – what do you think it is about these songs that has helped them to endure over the last 45 years?

Songwriting is an art that is almost impossible to teach. If you go to all these music colleges, you don’t see many courses on songwriting. A lot of courses are on playing music, production and road crew, but teaching someone to write a song – which AI has found to its chagrin – is almost impossible.

When you consider the technological revolution that took place in the 1980s, New Order were very well placed with Blue Monday, Thieves Like Us, Perfect Kiss, Temptation, Everything’s Gone Green. We were right there at the forefront of it, using Joy Division’s money to purchase these wonderful machines. 

To my knowledge, we were one of the only working class, post-punk bands. A lot of them were middle class, because that was the only way that you could afford the technology. It really was a golden period and a golden sound.

And have you noticed a new generation of fans coming along to the shows and hearing these iconic songs live for the first time?

When I started in 2010, the audience would be full of fat old blokes like me, relishing the old days. Now we’ve got a whole new audience. All that I’m guilty of is loving Joy Division and New Order’s music – and it seems quite strange to even say that. But I realised in 2010 when I first started playing it again, that there were people who loved it as much as me. And wherever they are and whoever they are, I am delighted to go and play for them, I really am.

The thing is a lot of us youngsters have grown into old duffers, who play these songs to our kids and the kids seem to delight – with the help of a few good cover versions – in celebrating the music just as much as we do.

You mentioned it was a revolutionary time for music and you were really at the centre of it all. Do you remember much about those early days?

It does cross my mind quite a lot, if I hadn’t gone that night to see the Sex Pistols. Getting inspired to start a band, and then, achieving what I’ve done - not only with one band but with two - is quite incredible!

It was an amazing inspiration and yet the inspiration, musically, was actually awful – the Sex Pistols sounded awful! I wouldn’t have thought I could play music, if they hadn't. I didn’t even own a musical instrument at that point! I was simply moved by the attitude.

Those episodes in music that I was very lucky to be at – from punk to post-punk to new romantics. We then had acid house with the Hacienda, we then went into Madchester. You’ve not seen much happen in popular music that hasn’t been influenced by those earlier events. 

Peter Hook & The Light have been going for almost fifteen years – when you started revisiting your back catalogue in 2010, did you envisage yourself still touring with The Light more than a decade later?

When New Order split up in 2007, I wasn’t sure that I would ever play music again. I DJed for five years all over the world and it was great to be paid to play other people’s music - but I really missed playing my own. When I started playing it again, I never thought I would be at Nottingham Rock City in 2017 or coming back in 2024. But I found my niche with people that love the music.

You know New Order – I call them New Odour now – they play a very limited snapshot of New Order’s music and don’t vary the set much. The biggest variance in the set that they’ve done is playing Joy Division, as they felt that I had stolen it from them. So that’s great, at least the fans get to hear both of us do it, so there’s that nice aspect to it. 

I actually worked out the other day that I’ve been playing with Pottsy (David Potts, guitarist) longer than I’d been playing with Barney (Bernard Sumner, New Order), how weird is that?! To be able to play those songs with a smile on your face is the nicest thing in the world.

Are there any particularly memorable shows or audiences that have stood out for you over the years?

When we began as Joy Division, we played a gig at Oldham Tower Club, I remember it vividly. Nobody came, no-one, zilch! We played to the barman, who swept the dancefloor while we were playing. I remember him stopping at one point waiting for us to finish, asking us if we knew any Jimi Hendrix tunes! Then ten years later, you’re headlining Glastonbury to 175,000 people. Whenever anyone says to me what’s your ideal audience, I always say as long as it’s between none and 175,000, I’m happy!

And do you remember much of that last Substance show here in Notts, or have any particularly fond memories of playing in Nottingham?

We played there at Rock City around that time and it was a big gig for us then. I remember when we arrived in the afternoon for the soundcheck they had all these Hell’s Angels as humpers (bouncers). We were there going through our smart phase, 80s tie and jacket you know. And I remember these Hell’s Angels bullying us on the way past like “Don’t scuff your shoes you n*b!” and all that!

I remember us doing the gig - which was a good gig, first time we’d played in Nottingham I’m pretty sure - and we didn’t play Blue Monday. So, when we finished our set and we went off, the DJ - whoever he was - put on Blue Monday, the record. We then ended up having a massive slanging match with him from the stage – “You f*cking d*ckhead, what you put that on for you n*bhead!” He’s coming back like “F*ck off you pair of t*ats, you should’ve played it!” So, we’re just there having this massive row with the DJ in Rock City! (laughs) So yeah, I do remember that one and that was the first time we played there!

Hearing a full Rock City sing Love Will Tear Us Apart was such an amazing experience at the last Substance show here, I imagine it’s like that everywhere you go – would you say it is your favourite song to play for that reason?

Some guy was asking me if I get sick of playing it and honestly, I don’t. Don’t forget, I didn’t play it for thirty years! I think in thirty years we played it twice and that was because our manager, Rob Gretton, God rest his soul, begged us to for his birthday.

But no, I’m delighted and again, I’m very proud of what we achieved as Joy Division. Funnily enough I was just telling someone that we wrote Love Will Tear Us Apart in two hours. We started Wednesday night and then Ian said to us as he was leaving that night, ‘Oh I’ve got an idea for some lyrics for that – I’ll come in on Sunday’. Because we used to practise on a Wednesday and a Sunday, the practice place was £3 an hour so two days was all we could afford. He came in on Sunday, he had the words and then we just did it – so from start to finish, it was like two hours. And my god, it’s still here 45 years later. My wife said to me ‘you’ll be playing that at your bloody funeral!’ and I said ‘I bloody hope so!’

When you look back now on everything you’ve accomplished, does the impact of it all hit home?

I think with New Order, we were very much a cornerstone of that Manchester revolution, that became an English revolution, and eventually took over the world through Oasis, Happy Mondays, The Stone Roses – it was huge, very powerful stuff.

I do count myself as very lucky but also, you’re celebrating something that’s very important to people so you cannot let them down. I’ll leave that to New Odour!

Peter Hook & The Light will play Rock City on Friday 18 October