The queer reimagining of Puccini’s Madame Butterfly

So, Carlos, what can audiences expect from Mariposa?

Carlos: Well, it's a huge emotional rollercoaster. It's got all the emotions, all the feels. It has dark comedy. It has a very beautiful but heartbreaking love story. There are beautiful costumes and designs. The sets are incredible. Lots of things are very flamboyant and very theatrical. We have an excellent cast of dancers. They are incredibly diverse in terms of cultural heritages, but also in terms of the bodies and their dance styles. So, it's a real transporting experience.

What was it about Madam Butterfly that attracted you?

Carlos: I've always been attracted to the opera since I was a little boy. I always loved a bit of drama. Obviously, the music by Puccini is stunning. And then, when I grew up, I got into Miss Saigon, the musical which also has very beautiful music. But I think really, it's this idea of sacrifice, of changing everything that you are and that you have for someone else. And then how heartbreaking it is when that person betrays you. I think that's something a lot of people experience in their life. I think everyone's had that at some point. It's particularly true for people who are queer, gay or trans. You know, we need to often make a lot of effort to be accepted by our families and society and also our partners. So, yeah, it's this idea of sacrifice and change. An absolute sacrifice for love that attracted me to it.

Ah, my next question was going to be whether sacrifice is a theme in Mariposa.

Carlos: It is a theme, but with Mariposa, the other theme is transformation. Actually, I don't want to give any spoilers away, but it’s about how with sacrifice comes transformation. Transformation means new beginnings and hope and light.

But why reimagine straight works? Why not just write new queer stories?

Carlos: Um, I am a history nerd. And from a very young age, I've been more interested in what happened in the past than what's happening now. And as an artist, it's something that really attracts me. So, one of the things that I find really interesting as a choreographer and a director is to go back to these historical works that are huge, like Romeo and Juliet or Madam Butterfly. Big cultural works that define Western culture, but haven't represented queer people before. And I think in going back and reimagining these iconic stories, what we're saying is that we have always existed. We've always been here, but we've just not been given a platform to tell our voices before. There's that element of claiming history back that attracts me.

And can you tell us about the DeNada company?

Carlos: Yes, DeNada is a dance company that's dedicated to representing the queer community and placing queer stories on stage. We do narrative work, where I've been inspired as a dancemaker by film directors and theatre directors. My DeNada productions are like films without words. Anyone can watch them without any experience of dance and understand the story. That's most important to me. But De Nada also has a very strong Hispanic and Latin aesthetic, because I am from the Canary Islands. I'm kind of halfway between Latin America and Spain, and I love to share my culture and explore and challenge what Hispanic and Latin culture is. So, there's definitely a very Latin vibe to everything that we do, and certainly Mariposa. It's set in Cuba,

You're from the Canary Islands. How did you come to be working in the north of England?

Carlos: Oh, it's a fun story. I always wanted to get out of the Canary Islands. It's a lovely place and very sunny and warm, but I felt as a kid that I had to spread my wings and go somewhere where more was happening. In fact, I wanted to become a dancer, but grew up in a very traditional Spanish family, where boys didn't dance. And I lied to my parents, and told them I was coming to England to study English at Leeds University. I had secretly auditioned for one of the best dance schools here in England, the Northern School of Contemporary Dance, and I got in through a video audition. I felt my parents would never find out. I would go and do dance and tell my parents I was doing English. Two weeks later, once I was already in Leeds, they got a letter from the School of Dance saying: If your son gets injured, we'll let you know, because he's under the age of 17. They were like, how are you going to get injured doing English?

Anyway, when I finished my training, I started making work. And it felt easier to be in the north to make things happen than in a bigger city like London. So, I stayed.

After the Canary Islands, didn't Leeds seem a bit grey?

Carlos: I've been here for 20 years now, so I'm more British than Spanish by this stage. And there's a great arts and dance culture in England, with such a big theatrical tradition. There's audiences here for it, organizations here for it. There's none of that in Spain. That's definitely something that's kept me here. And, I've been able to work with such amazing artists from around the world here in England. That’s a big draw. And you forget the rain.

But also, it has the opposite effect of making you really think about the sun and making you really think about where you come from. And I think that's why De Nada exists. It's been 12 years now, but De Nada began as a nostalgia or homesickness project. About thinking where you come from and trying to share that with people here. So that's also the effect of the rain.

Why did you want to be a choreographer and not just a dancer?

Carlos: When I told my parents I was going to do English, there was an element of truth in that I love storytelling. I love reading books. Since I was a kid, I was always making up stories in my head. When I trained as a dancer, I realized that for me, the purest way of doing that is through the body. Because when you're dancing, there's nothing else but yourself. I also wanted to be a dancer and

I also auditioned. But things kicked off as a choreographer early on, and I started developing work. And it's so hard to get your work shown and to fundraise and to manage it, etc. So, I stopped dancing to doing more of that. But eventually I realized that the biggest pleasure I have, is the magic of seeing what's in your head on a stage. There's no feeling like that for me. Then I understood that actually what I wanted to do was tell stories through other people's bodies and be able to sit in the audience and get their reactions.

Mariposa is written for the LGBTQ+ community. Will straight audiences find something in it for them?

Carlos: Absolutely, it's ultimately a story of love. And I think everyone, at some point has been in love. I think this idea of changing who you are and abandoning your previous life to enter a new one, is not something that's exclusively queer. We've all done that.

And there again, it's a historical piece that talks about the colonial relationship between Spain and Cuba. Obviously in England, we've got a very similar history. It's a window, perhaps, into the life of many LGBTQ+ people, but it's also a window about a more human level of what we all do to be accepted. The majority of work out there on stages is still very much about heterosexual relationships. And we are expected as queer people to go watch them and identify. Now it's time that people who don't identify as queer go watch queer work and actually feel that it's about them. In the same way that historically, we have always watched straight works like Madame Butterfly and had to identify with them.

What advice would you give young people wanting to get into the dance industry,

Carlos: Don't do it.

Oh? Had someone said that to you when you arrived in Leeds, would you have given up?

Carlos: Well, from my experience, you need to hold onto it like a dog to a bone. It's a tough ride.  But it’s a beautiful ride. I've been very fortunate. I've been around the world. I've met incredible people. I've told incredible stories. This is so magical and so amazing. But it does take a lot of work. It does take a lot of determination, like a strong armour, both a physical one and an emotional one. When I started off, I was very late. I should have started dancing when I was younger, but my parents wouldn't allow me. Everyone said, don't do this. But I am stubborn. So, every time someone said no, I'd be like, yes. Determination is what takes you the furthest. Talent, obviously, is good and to have a flexible body. But if you're determined and have tenacity, you'll go anywhere.

The fact you didn’t start till relatively late, yet achieved so much, exemplifies that beautifully, doesn't it? One last question, what's next for Carlos Pons Guerra and DeNada?

Carlos: We’re touring Mariposa all through spring, then I have a couple of other commissions. New ballets that I can't announce yet but stay tuned, for other companies here and abroad.

And then DeNada is working on an adaptation. We've started making it, and it'll be premiering probably in 2026, based on Christopher Marlowe's play Edward the Second, the real-life story of the murder of a gay medieval king.

Mariposa plays at Lakeside Arts on Tuesday November 26th 2024.