Courtney Pine

You are viewed as the symbol for British jazz and a musical pioneer since breaking out in the mid-eighties. Your journey must’ve been difficult in a country not so synonymous with mainstream jazz?
I feel that I still have a long way to go and have always felt honoured to stand on the stage and perform jazz music that comes from my experiences of being born and bred in the United Kingdom. I do realise that it is going against the stream to be performing an improvised based music in this environment but that is the challenge and one that i really like for some strange reason.

Jazz nowadays can often be perceived as a rich man’s hobby, wherein only privileged children and teenagers get involved and prosper due to the somewhat extortionate prices of musical instruments, tutors etc. Is this different from when you were being educated and learning your trade as a musician?
No, jazz was viewed in a very similar way in the late seventies, early eighties when I got into it. In fact, during the eighties jazz became a strange symbol of opulence. I say strange as most of the originators or major ground breakers of the music genre came from humble backgrounds in America. Over here, the majority of performers came from an upper middle class background and usually had no intention of representing their society or creating a sound that was unique to the British experience; emulating or trying to copy musicians from another existence. There are exceptions to this like John Surman, Barbara Thompson, Tommy Smith, who use jazz to liberate their musical conscience. Right now the music and practitioners are in constant flux with those brave enough and willing to represent their humanity. As far as money, class or social standing in jazz, it started in the neighbourhood (New Orleans) as a functional music for all and that intention is what still survives to this day regardless.

Many jazz musicians get paid a meagre pittance when touring and performing, especially in the UK, and often play to small intimate audiences in even smaller venues. Is this the romanticism of jazz, where passion and love for the music prevails over financial recognition?
I agree, paid a pittance compared to other arts in the UK. In this society it is acceptable to be paid door money or a percentage of finance procured on the amount of people patronising the pub, club, bar or restaurant. This, I found unacceptable and tried, through improvements in the performance of my music, a way to break this process. I don’t see this as “romanticism” but as exploitation of human beings who strive to elevate people’s consciousness through the manipulation of sound.

Nottingham Arts Theatre
Thursday 26 November, 7pm

I can remember hearing you being interviewed on a Channel 4 documentary back in the mid-2000s on the 100 Greatest Albums of All Time in which Radiohead’s OK Computer was number one. You stated, ‘When I hear Radiohead, I hear jazz’. Is jazz more a way of expressing one’s art in whatever form, rather than as a standard labelled genre?
Jazz is an amazing communication device or language that represents human beings in sound in a way that no other music style or genre can. With this in mind, when artists use jazz type techniques to express themselves in their music, the flavour or essence can be felt. This, when done honestly and sincerely, does not take away from the said genre and in many cases elevates that music to a different plane. Many popular musicians listen and practice jazz on the sly – every now and then these fetishes that peep through are viewed as if they have never been heard before by some but it seems like we need labels or categories to define us.

Your new release, with the wonderfully gifted Zoe Rahman, is a departure from the more upbeat bouncy jazz of your previous releases and more a case of traditionally contemporary melancholic songwriting. How important is it to constantly push the limits of your artistry as opposed to pigeonholing yourself to a particular sound?
As an indie jazz artist I feel that it is important to understand that you are performing to an audience at the same time as fulfilling your personal ambitions. I have never thought that my next album would be my last or my best ever but as a work in progress or development from my previous effort. Jazz music has seen a number of compositions that express genre-breaking, generational-crossing, cultural barrier-breaking platforms for improvisation and this tradition is something that I like to work with. In fact, it inspires me to practice or make myself better.

If you had to choose one musician, past or present, ceased or deceased, that you could make an album with, who would it be and why?
There are many but Thelonious Monk, who was a technically gifted composer, performer and pianist, is somebody I could have learnt a lot from by playing alongside either in rehearsal or on the bandstand or on one of those long train journeys, just listening to the stories of jazz legends and how they survived. My heroes Miles Davis, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane and many others did this and you can hear why these musicians being inspired became the innovators that we know.

After this mammoth tour of the album with Zoe, what are your plans for future?
I have several: I would like to remix my House of Legends project with vocalists from the Caribbean and the UK; I would like to record another bass clarinet album; I would like to go to Cuba and create a Cuban album; I would like to finally record a studio jazz warrior album, to name a few ideas. To date, I have ten on paper which includes another piano duets album. I am not sure which one will come out next, the latest project idea I had is entitled Black British History. I have a couple of live recordings that require a mix and my label is still on the look-out for young and older artists that want to release music in this format still. My plans for the future are busy but I am still practicing, researching and trying to make better music.

Courtney Pine and Zoe Rahman play at Nottingham Arts Theatre on Thursday 26 November at 7pm. You can buy tickets here.

Courtney Pine website